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You're back? So, did you notice anything about those costumes? Namely, the fact that all the guys are walking Symbols of Male Power while the lone female character looks like a fucking spider monkey stripper?
I know the arguments. "Well, it's just like her costume in the comics, so why are you getting up the producer's ass for being FAITHFUL?", or "But they make fun of how impractical her costume is! It's subversive!", or "I'll bet you just hate The Watchmen comics!" To answer those in reverse order:
You H8TE The Watchmen, You Evil-Doer You!
I did read The Watchmen in college. This was about a decade ago, so my memory may be a little hazy, but I do remember liking the comic quite a bit. Even though it was relentlessly depressing. But I seemed to remember there being a pudgy, overweight, middle-aged couple having sex in these absolutely ridonkulous costumes, which I loved. And there being lots of mind-blowing ethical problems the characters had to gnosh on. Which I also loved. So no, I'm not some rabid Watchmen h8ter. I actually was looking forward to the movie.
That said, I still really fucking hate that costume.
Subversion Central
This argument does not fly with me. It's used by marketers so they can do whatever they damn well please to make a buck playing on stereotypes and people's prejudices, while allowing them to present themselves as Sensitive Men Who Understand A Woman's Pain. It's no different than Disney saying, "Pocahontas is a great Native American role model - she struggles to protect her people and the man she loves!" while at the same time upping Pocahontas's age and inflating her bust-line to eye-bulging proportions. They did the same with Mulan, too. Sure, in the movie she's a good role model, but it's not Warrior Mulan they're making the big bucks off of now, it's Princess Mulan (Wasn't dressing like this part of what made Mulan miserable in the first place?!). No people, you can NOT have your cake and eat it, too. You're full of crap, and we know it.
Edited: Apparently my memory of the books is fairly accurate. So if these people are so into being FAITHFUL, why isn't Laurie middle aged and overweight? HMMMMMMMMMMM???
Basically, the marketers and producers want to be able to claim they are subverting the Hawt Female Super-Hero stereotype while still generating revenue from it.
Another great example of this is Sin City, where we were told over and over how "free" and "empowered" the prostituted women are. Sure, whatever. They're so empowered they still have to service men sexually for money (which means they're also "empowered" to dress like strippers). They're so "capable" and "strong" that they almost all die until a MAN comes along to save them.
This ties into:
Faithful
Well, gosh golly, Batman, I just KNOW the producers must have burned a lot of late night calories stressing about how incredibly faithful they must be to the comics. Because every movie that comes out based on a book or a comic is totally, word for word faithful to the source material.
Eye roll.
Disney knew better than to bring the Insane Racist Stereotype Native Americans from the first Peter Pan movie into the second. TIMES CHANGE. There's no reason someone has to cling to an out-moded stereotype just because It Is So in a 20 year old comic book. If Bryan Singer can reinvent The X-Men in the two thoroughly entertaining, surprisingly femme-friendly movies that he helmed, and there wasn't rioting in the streets (I mean, he changed Logan's costume, the fucker! Where's the YELLOW SPANDEX?! And he changed Kurt's costume completely, oh noez!), I don't see how they have to cling so slavishly to this one costume. I mean, that owl guy's costume looks pretty different. It looks like it's been "updated" to me. So why couldn't they give Laurie a more sensible outfit?
And don't kid yourself. They didn't add in that skimpy costume out of a desire to be FAITHFUL. They did it because they know they can spread her image across a shitload of advertising and get the attention of the young, male demographic they are expecting the most revenue from. Frankly, I'm tired of being told, "BUT WAIT THIS IS DIFFERENT!" when it's really all more of the same.
It's too bad, really, because they could have had my attention, otherwise. Reminds me of the whole debacle with FF X-2. But that's a whole other rant for another day.
Movies and With Good Women Superheroes
Supergirl - Okay, the movie is dumb as a bag of hammers but: SUPERGIRL! IN HER OWN MOVIE!!! And she kind of kicks some ass! These awful truckers get fresh with her and she kicks them right through a Dumpster. Well, I loved it when I was a kid. Don't look at me like that. I didn't know any better! *sob!*
Aliens - Don't tell me Ripley doesn't count. She and Vasquez could hand Superman his under-roos in a New York minute.
Batman the Animated Series (especially Gotham Knights and Batman Beyond) and JLU - The writing is great, Wonderwoman owns the whole damn show, and I love Hawkgirl with the shining glory of a thousand suns. She is really that awesome. Why, you ask? People, she is a tiny little red-headed winged woman whose street clothes consist of jeans, a real shirt, and comfy shoes! And she hits bad guys and girls through walls with A GIANT MALLET. She is allowed to express her ANGER. She is allowed to be COMPLICATED. I love her. Love love love love. Plus, she's as sharp as a tack and the only positive portrayal of an atheist I have ever seen in an animated TV show. As for Batman Beyond - I LOVE middle-aged Barbara Gordon. Her character design is incredible. Very rare for TV.
X-Men 1 and 2 - Bryan Singer did an all around incredible job. The male and female costumes are equally stupid, we get Shirtless Logan (nice change of pace), and I actually felt like I was spending large parts of both movies seeing things THROUGH the female character's eyes, instead of staring at them voyeuristically (the third movie...no. I hate that movie. But Singer wasn't involved in that one).
Buffy the Vampire Slayer - I hated the last few seasons, but the first few really are incredible. Truly a ground-breaking show for its time.
Hellboy - A totally under-rated movie. What's not to love? Liz Sherman dresses, looks, and acts like an actual human woman, John is loveably dorky, and Hellboy himself is a stone fox. Hee. Get it? GET IT??? The movie is also howlingly funny. I can't wait for the sequel to come out this summer.
V for Vendetta - A young woman ends up deciding the fate of the world. A lesbian woman, who is never treated as a male visual object, inspires two people to fight for change. One of the ONLY action movies I have ever seen where gay characters are NOT used as walking jokes. They are actually treated as human beings. Incredible.
That's all I've got for right now, but I'll add more as they come to me. Which I'm sure they will.
Comments
I'm actually perturbed by Nite Owl, too. He's not that muscular! Ozy certainly is, and the Comedian is every symbol of hypermasculinity rolled into one, but Nite Owl's in his 40s with the belly to match.
I'm more upset with the way they've made every character here about looks and not about personality - which is why Watchmen is so appealing.
Well, at least every character except for Rorschach. I can't really tell with that back lighting what he's got going for him. But as Rorschach is supposed to be a creepy guy, I don't think they'll prettify him.
I KNEW IT!!! I KNEW I remembered her being OLDER and HEAVIER. I toldja, I LIKED the comics quite a bit. AM NOT LIKING THE MOVIE SO FAR. I edited my post. I wasn't sure I was remembering things right, but thank you for the proof that my brain is not aged soup yet!
And really, wasn't Nite Owl kinda pudgy and middle aged, too?
Edited at 2008-03-06 11:27 pm (UTC)
And Catwoman and her secretary Mavis. Remember when Mavis was attacked and totally shook off those thugs at the apartment? And Catwoman with her love of big cats, her ferocity as Selina Kyle.
The women characters in that series had hella three dimensional personalities, and they weren't wearing bikinis or high heels.
(and spoilers ahead for any who haven't read the book)
I still think Watchmen (the book) isn't sexist when it comes to Laurie, particularly when you take into account that the book was written in 1986. She's much, much more than her costume - in fact, the chapter where she and Dr. Manhattan have their debate about humanity is one of the most moving and memorable in the book. Her mother's attitudes about sexuality, gender roles and women differ considerably from Laurie's (and are sometimes a bit disturbing), but I saw this as expected, as a difference between women from radically different generations and with radically different personalities. They both felt like fully realized people to me, not gendered stereotypes.
To be honest, Alan Moore is one of the few male writers I trust completely to be hyper aware of sexism and not to deliberately encourage it in his work.
There's a reason why so many movies are children's stories and comic books -- so we don't have to think about anything in more than 2 dimensions. This formula is what makes America great. You actually have to force yourself out of mainstream society to start thinking for yourself, and more importantly, thinking about things other than yourself -- it's a bloody brilliant system.
The problem Leigh, is that you're thinking critically about something that was never meant to espouse anything deeper from the viewer beyond "Gee, what a great $10 I spent". The female character cannot send a positive message to women if she was not meant to send a message in the first place. Sure she's probably going to kick the shit out of a few villains, say something "edgy" about being female but not feminist enough to bring down any semi-erections in the audience, and in the end she'll probably have to be saved by someone - but don't worry Leigh, she's powerful, we promise, that'll be $10 please.
In short, her outfit. Problem. Always with the thighs. But the costume is like a crack in the walls of a building about to implode.
Edited at 2008-03-06 11:35 pm (UTC)
"his male characters are just as ridiculously overbuilt and scantily clad as his female."
Uhm, this is fairly standard for super-hero comics, and I'll let you in on a little secret: Guys Can Have Insecurity Issues From That Sort Of Thing Too. We just deal with it differently... and I'd say youthful phases of over-obsessive working out 'til one's nearly ground one's own joints to powder, followed by frustration at it not resulting in being build like a tank, along with all other manner of misapplied machismo -- yes, there is such a thing as a proper application; but all things in moderation, and all that :-) -- is a comparable form of mental unwellness to, say, eating disorders and contemplation of breast implants.
Of course now that I'm grown up (relatively), I take all that with the same grain of salt one does with... well, a lot of other preposterousness of the superhero genre, and I still love that stuff (since BATMAN BEGINS came out, I've developed into quite the Batman comics junkie, you'll find). Frankly, though, if we are doing to discuss things on a purely pruriant level, I'd PREFER to see more realistically drawn women in comics, as the "Playmate Ideal"/Pamala-Anderson-bimbo look... really doesn't do a thing for me.
Supergirl could use a cinematic reboot. I recently saw a bit of how that character's evolved in EMPEROR JOKER, and she's a lot more distinctive and interesting a character than I recall from when I was a kid.
As to BUFFY, have you seen FIREFLY or SERENITY by chance? River's the eternal secret love of my life, FTR.
I've long since lost any ability to take most Disney movies (at least in the last 20 years) remotely seriously enough to discuss them on a film-crit-socio-political level. So many of my favorite fandoms (like old-school pulp fiction of various genres) are riddled with "dated" elements, so I know what you meant about not wanting/needing to see EVERYTHING be treated faithfully.
Good point! Hmmm....I think I meant more that in those TV shows, the female characters seem to me to get treated with the same respect as the male characters. They're well rounded, complex individuals. One of the reasons I love those shows. When I watch them, I don't feel like the director is screaming, "BOW BEFORE TOWER OF POWER MAN AND THEN TURN AROUND AND STARE AT THESE BOOBIES!!!!". It's like, Oh My Gawd, they actually wrote a STORY and put in character development! :P
I'd PREFER to see more realistically drawn women in comics, as the "Playmate Ideal"/Pamala-Anderson-bimbo look... really doesn't do a thing for me.
Considering how many mainstream comics artists basically trace porn stars for their comics pages...yeah. I'm sick of it, too. One of the companion comics for X-2, the one about Nightcrawler, had some really well drawn women in it. Realisitic clothing, body weight, proportions, everything. That guy should get a damn medal.
have you seen FIREFLY or SERENITY by chance?
I've seen Serenity, didn't really get into Firefly, but I don't want to say anything because every time I say anything, Firefly fans descend on me and beat me up. :P
Edited at 2008-03-06 11:49 pm (UTC)
I bet you, any money, that the Silk Spectre looks confident and assured in civilian wear, and utterly miserable in costume.
Ugh, another superpowered slut. Lame. I REALLY hope I can find the actual comics and feel comforted that I wont' be the first to have a heavy female doing more than eating/yelling at kids/etc.
Hm... maybe I'll create a male vampire slut. Yes, slut. Not playboy, not player, not stud. A total whore.
But in this case, the men all suddenly get bad-ass body armor but the woman seems to be stuck in spandex. That is pretty crappy. Hopefully the blue guy is still mostly naked though.
See, that's all I'm asking for! It's one of the reasons I have a major soft spot for the Gold Digger comic series by Fred Perry. Yes, his women have giant boobs and are often half naked -- but the male characters are big piles of walking yum-yum cheesecake, too! And that series has a playful, satirical tone that makes it impossible to take ANY of it seriously. :P
Hopefully the blue guy is still mostly naked though.
He's going to be computer generated. Oh, joy! What, they couldn't find any male exhibitionists in Hollywood? :P
As for Watchmen, I've never been that big on the comics, even though I thought they were good. Perhaps it was because it came out a long time before I started reading comics. Thus the movie has been more of a curiosity than a real "omg must see!"
As for Laurie...I'm in the "wait and see" camp. For one, these might not be the final costumes. (I'm holding out for the gossamer shirtdress, even if it is trés '80s.) For two, as much as the story of the Watchmen has to do with costumed people, it's about the people. Another responder here (
I like Nite-Owl's costume, though. Quite a lot.
Aside from The Comedian, could these be the younger versions of the characters, rather than the older, dumpier versions? I'm hoping that these are the young versions.
I'm hoping that these are the young versions.
I really do want to see the middle-aged versions. That's the one thing I remember most about the comics, and what stuck with me the most. That's what I liked -- that vision of what happens to the heroes "after", when middle age hits. Probably one of the reasons I like Batman Beyond so much, too.
Why always with the high heels? If they're so easy to run around kicking butt in, how come they're not standard issue in the military? ;)
I think someone made a good point that Miller is actually successfully subverting a stereotype, but that the movie will probably lose all that subtlety. I'd have to read the book again to made up my own mind though -- like I've said, it's been over 10 years.
Man, sometimes, don't you really want to slip Moore a Xanax or a Prozac, just to see what would happen? The man gives "dark" a whole new level of meaning. :)
I haven't read too many of the comics, but I think that movie is one of the most underrated comic book-to-movie adaptations made. Probably because it came out the same year that other comic book film came out.
I definitely agree. I love the Hellboy movie. Ron Perlman was incredible. I don't know anyone else who can act that effectively through that much make-up. He brought the character to LIFE. That movie is one of my favorite rainy Sunday comfort movies. I'm very much looking forward to the sequel.
I did consider adding Liz to the list. I dunno, I gotta think about it though. Liz seemed kinda forgettable to me -- the movie definitely seems to be more about Hellboy himself, and I thought both John and Liz were a little under-written. Which, again, is not to say I don't love the movie, because I do.
Buuuuuuttt....Liz does dress VERY sensibly through the entire movie, she looks like a real person, and her power kicks some major butt, the director treats her character with a lot of respect...
Hm....
I think I will have to add her. :)
Boy, LOEG was a mess of a movie, wasn't it? I was all excited to see it because Dorian Gray is one of my favorite literary characters, and I was pissed at how badly they screwed him up. :P
I thought Constantine was fun though. I didn't regret paying my $6, and I had a good time. :)
Edit: I added Liz. It's cool to run into another Hellboy fanatic! I die laughing at that subway kitten rescue scene every damn time. :)
Edited at 2008-03-07 06:15 am (UTC)
That way, if there's any new adaptation (
which will be accompanied by armaggeddonMaybe I should try and write the first adaptation first off.) and it tries to have Alexis show skin early on, there'll be a backlash.Despite all the costumes, Watchmen is not a story about superheroes saving the day. These screens make me think Warner missed out on that, much like how Disney seems to have forgotten that Mulan was popular because she didn't have the traditional Disney Princess bust-to-hip ratio, was not a helpless girl, and succeeded on her own.
For all we know, the script is designed to show one thing and narrate another, but these are not necessarily promising images.
That series is my bible - MY BIBLE!
Pleeeeease tell me you've read the comics! Please? Because it wasn't until I read the graphic novel that I realized how massive a buttrape the film the was. =(